The CoCreate Podcast

Marketing That Makes An Impact With Jessica Bird.

September 21, 2020 Nicole Salvatore Season 1 Episode 5
The CoCreate Podcast
Marketing That Makes An Impact With Jessica Bird.
Chapters
The CoCreate Podcast
Marketing That Makes An Impact With Jessica Bird.
Sep 21, 2020 Season 1 Episode 5
Nicole Salvatore

Jessica Bird is an impact-driven creator inspired by healing from trauma, assault, and chronic illness. Through her writing she aims to inspire healing and hope in the hearts of creators who's messages can contribute to collective compassion and community. Her work with creative entrepreneurs empowers compassionate artists to become successful entrepreneurs with a rippling impact.

My interview with Jessica was a fantastic opportunity to explore what it means to create real lasting impact in the lives of our clients and communities and to market with passion and compassion.

If you loved my interview with Jessica, you can find her at TheSerendipityLifestyle.Com Download the Embrace Yourself eBook for free when you join her email list at www.theserendipitylifestyle.com/subscribe

Our Podcast Is Produced By:
Jowanna Lewis
Founder & CEO
The Internet Radio Organization
https://internetradioorganization.com/

Show Notes Transcript

Jessica Bird is an impact-driven creator inspired by healing from trauma, assault, and chronic illness. Through her writing she aims to inspire healing and hope in the hearts of creators who's messages can contribute to collective compassion and community. Her work with creative entrepreneurs empowers compassionate artists to become successful entrepreneurs with a rippling impact.

My interview with Jessica was a fantastic opportunity to explore what it means to create real lasting impact in the lives of our clients and communities and to market with passion and compassion.

If you loved my interview with Jessica, you can find her at TheSerendipityLifestyle.Com Download the Embrace Yourself eBook for free when you join her email list at www.theserendipitylifestyle.com/subscribe

Our Podcast Is Produced By:
Jowanna Lewis
Founder & CEO
The Internet Radio Organization
https://internetradioorganization.com/

Nicole Salvatore :

Welcome to the CO create podcast. I'm your host Nicole Salvatore Beach Bum and aspiring dog mom who left her windowless office job to start a copywriting business. I said hell no to burnout and now I spend my days connecting with amazing women, many of them copywriters, just like me, who are creating businesses, they don't crave a break. And that's exactly what we're going to help you do on this podcast. Help you co create amazing experiences with your clients and design a life that's nothing short of stellar will welcome copywriters, creators straight up inspiring women as they share their sparks of insight, their go to marketing, and the mindset shifts that mattered most to them and their business. So whether you're looking for those business strategies you can put into action right away, or you just need a kick ass pep talk from someone who gets it. You'll feel right at home here. And I can't wait to help you and your business. Stay stellar. Let's go. Jessica bird is an impact driven creator inspired by healing from trauma, assault and chronic illness. serve her writing she aims to inspire healing and hope in the hearts of creators whose messages can contribute to collective compassion and community. Her work with creative entrepreneurs empowers compassionate artists to become successful entrepreneurs with a rippling impact. my interview with Jessica was a fantastic opportunity to explore what it means to create real lasting impact in the lives of our clients and communities and to market with passion and compassion. So let's get to it guys. Hi, Jess. How are you doing?

Jessica Bird :

I'm doing so good. How are you? I'm well I'm

Nicole Salvatore :

well. Let's dive in really quickly what's going on in your world?

Jessica Bird :

Well, I'm sitting in my car admiring the blue skies, and they might be the only blue skies and the entire Pacific Northwest. Oh my gosh, and celebrating the small wins in 2020. I bet you

Nicole Salvatore :

I'm doing pretty much the same sitting on the sunroom porch. And it is a little hot for September. But I'm not going to complain because in like two months, it will be way too cold to be out here. So I have to be honest, I'm so beyond stoked to have this conversation with you today. But if anyone in our in our little listening community isn't familiar or like, isn't super familiar with your work, what would you like them to know? Because you know, once we dive in, I'm sure we'll kind of riff off of all these different ways that our missions are kind of aligned and the follies of the marketing industry and all that. But what should people know about you in the work that you do before we like dive in.

Jessica Bird :

So I kind of have two sides. And I think most of it, we're going to talk about this to the marketing side. So I just want to tell people actually, my Why. Why I came into this is because I'm a creator, I'm a writer, I write really vulnerably I wrote a book about healing from read. And I help a lot of vulnerable people put important work like that out into the world. So my reason for kind of dissecting, marketing and taking out all the awfulness, which we'll talk about, is really because we all have so much really beautiful, important stuff at our core that we're trying to share. I think anyone in business, they're going into business to help people. And so when it comes to marketing, for me, it's not necessarily about reaching masses of people and all the status and the money that comes with it, which can be a good thing. But that's not really the point. The point is that we all connect on this really human level. And so I just want people to know that I'm here as a creator, and here as someone who believes in the power of art, and sharing, and just being deeply human, and everything that we do. And that's why I have these marketing strategies that we're going to talk about and these perspectives about all the different ways that you can share your business, and you can meet people around the world and all that kind of stuff.

Nicole Salvatore :

Awesome. No, that's fantastic. And I think that what you said about each of us kind of having this fantastic work within us that we can bring out into the world and supporting other people as they do that. I think that's so important. Because, well, first of all, I just think it's so important period. But I also think it's important, because we don't always recognize that in ourselves, but we can very easily I believe see it in other people.

Jessica Bird :

Yes, yes, so much of the work that I do as a writer is just teaching people to kind of see what they see in others that they admire as a reflection of themselves. I think that's why we're so addicted to you know, those cute stories and those really moving videos that you see of like someone rescuing an animal. When we see people doing things that they're best or share when they're super inspired, are passionate. I think so much of what we love about it is actually a reflection of who we are when we're at our best. Absolutely being surrounded by that and seeing that being a part of a creative community. It just, it reminds you who you are, and it helps you be even better. And then when you do that it ripples out because then other people see you and they're inspired by you to be even more of themselves. And it's just a really beautiful, rippling impact that can happen when we show up to the world vulnerably as our full selves.

Nicole Salvatore :

Absolutely. So I guess the national Next question I have to ask is, how did you find your way to this work? Because it seems like a perfect fit for you. But I know that sometimes that's a process that coming to that perfect fit is, in my experience, at least I won't speak for you, certainly. But how did you find your way to this work?

Jessica Bird :

Well, I agree it was a journey. It was a lot of push and pull. when I very first started, I started writing and I was just posting a little blog post, and I was posting the medium. And I didn't know a single thing about how to actually mark it, I had just finished my business degree. And they taught me all this stuff about being super professional, and how to do different types of market research. And it was very much about getting in people's head just to learn how to manipulate them. And so I had all this strategy I learned with my degree, and I could not apply that to my writing, I couldn't present these really vulnerable pieces of work. With that kind of sticky, gross marketing feeling. I couldn't make myself do it. So my writing didn't go anywhere. for like two years, I was writing every single day. And then I started meeting other creators, I discovered Whoopi Carr. She's a poet that kind of started out on Tumblr and Instagram, like 10 years ago, and she's pretty famous now for her poetry. And when I discovered her, she built this amazing community of women who were vulnerable women who were healing and understood her. And so I kind of started watching what she doing. Why are people listening and gathering around her she's not doing any marketing that I can see. And that kind of got me started, I just got really, really curious, I looked at people that I loved and admired that were doing well. And dug deeper, I was like, how are they doing that, because if I admire them, they're probably not doing things that are really horrible. Right? I didn't find her through some of noxious posts that was just like screaming to be the loudest one on my Facebook feed. I found her naturally. And that was really beautiful. So what got me started was just trying to learn how to share my own work in a way that people were ready to receive it, instead of forcing it on them.

Nicole Salvatore :

That's wonderful. And I think that too, like this is one of the things I have for later in our conversation. But I'll just mention it. Now one of the things that as my undergrad was in creative writing, and later, and then I kept on to psychology. But that's a story for another day, ladies and gentlemen. But it's like the concept that actually kept me away from professional writing at first was this idea of an audience and needing to morph, what I garnered from those conversations in the academic world was you need to morph in order to suit your audience and give them what they are expecting or what they would like, or what we'll do X, Y, or Z. And so the idea of an audience just turned me off in a bazillion different ways. That's a technical number, you guys can check that.

Unknown Speaker :

But

Nicole Salvatore :

it turned me off to this whole idea of writing professionally. I didn't come back to that until later, obviously. And so I wonder if that sticky UI marketing feeling, again, another technical term, but that UI marketing feeling is is not because of the audience, but because of how we are maybe trained to expect to treat an audience if that makes sense.

Jessica Bird :

That makes so much sense. I think I had a similar thing where I felt even when I got into business, and I was learning from these creative entrepreneurs who were a lot more heart and human centered. There was this constant constant push to figure out your ideal client avatar, right niche down, figure out exactly what your client wants. And I resisted that. Because I was like, Well, my client, my ideal, whoever I want to reach, they're a very multifaceted human being, like women are, we're crazy. We're amazing. We go from like, one end of the spectrum to the other in five minutes. understanding exactly who they are, and just being able to regurgitate things that they want to hear constantly. That didn't feel possible for why and it didn't feel good in any way. It felt like the opposite of everything I wanted to do as an artist. It just felt like putting people in a box and nobody likes to be put in your box.

Nicole Salvatore :

No, absolutely. I and this is probably something that I think we started to talk about offline. But I come at that ideal client work from a psychological perspective. So I'm always thinking like, not what do they want to hear? But how am I going to offer them something that they can actually use that can actually make their life better. And that in my mind, for my coming from the counseling background that I come from, is meeting them where they are and not expecting them to fit in a box and not expecting them to want to leave whatever box they do fit, you know, and being there with them. And so it is more of a cat. I'm not you know, not practicing and not practicing in New Jersey because I'm not licensed here but if I were you No, that's the kind of mentality that I bring to it. Because I do agree with you. There's a lot of Route memorization as far as like, what's your avatar? And, you know, what's his name, or her name or their name? And what's their favorite song? I'm like, I don't know, because depending on the day asked me what my favorite song is, you know, you'll get something different some days. Mmm. And some days Gaslight anthem, you never know what you're gonna get,

Jessica Bird :

miss. Yeah.

Nicole Salvatore :

But I take your point, absolutely. That this ideal client work? I see it done the same way repeatedly. And I don't know if it's going to suit everyone to answer questions like, what's their favorite color? What's their favorite band? But maybe what are they longing for? Or where are they craving? Or what do they need right now? And how can we help them to achieve those goals that are really deeply rooted within them? And I just think that takes a different level of care, and responsibility. I don't know if that makes sense.

Jessica Bird :

Yes, yes. That's a perfect segue, actually, into what I wanted to share. I think it's great to have that ideal clock. Yeah, you come at it with care. And you come at it with responsibility, like you said, I think that instead of taking it as learning how to manipulate people, you use it as a tool for learning how to step on people's map, to get on their map with them where they are, and use that understanding to then reach them not to convince and coerce and market like not to just throw things at them, but instead to stand there with them and look around and see the view and see their perspective.

Nicole Salvatore :

So one of the things I was really excited to discuss is this hope and service aligned marketing this marketing that if but I think we're both big on, you know, how would you define your particular marketing approach, not necessarily in contrast to everyone else, but maybe in the ways that you might explain it to someone who's not not heavy into that marketing field. Like we, we kind of speak the same language, but I'm wondering what you define as a that hope and service, align marketing that that you are, in my mind, the whole market.

Jessica Bird :

Okay, I'm gonna try to make this meta and not super technical. But I love the tech side, too. So feel free to stop me redirect. But the way that I approach marketing, I love search engines and SEO, which we talked about a little bit already offline. But I love Pinterest. That's the way that I go about marketing. And I love it because it's a search engine, right? So people are looking for what I'm sharing, I'm not trying to trample on top of everybody and be the loudest post and get their attention by using certain video tactics. I just don't have to plot the way that I'm going to reach people and said, I'm like you asked for it. Here you go. You're and so I love Pinterest, because it's a search engine. And the way that you use that information that you gather, say, if you understand your ideal client avatar is not to know exactly what's going to hook them and set them in and make them distracted for whatever they were trying to do. But instead, it's understanding what they go out there looking for, and helping them bridge the gap between maybe what it is they need and want in the moment versus what's going to help them long term. So for my business, what I do is teach people how to market and I show them how to walk their customer through an entire journey. They think they just want to learn how to make a sale really quick. And in business, our business thrives off money, it keeps going because we make money. So I know that's important. But it's really important to guide people through the longer term too, because that quick win that we learned about in business school that really quick, make the sale instantly, and then just keep going off that one, it doesn't work in the long term, especially if you're a really vulnerable heart centered person, you can feel really gross if you're not going in at a deeper level. So I teach people kind of how to start where they are and how to take people on a journey with them to really invite them along to use the whole map. Does that make sense?

Nicole Salvatore :

No, absolutely. And I think the other thing the other part of that too, and I don't know if you had meant to bring us there but when you're talking about the journey, right when you're expressing this ability to lead someone on a not just a purchasing journey because I'm using air quotes no one can see because it's a podcast but

Unknown Speaker :

but not just say

Nicole Salvatore :

I'm gonna buy this thing from Jess journey, right? But but more this, I'm gonna trust this person. And or this business if you are a larger entity, which is cool too, and not making it a one off deal. So that if they want to come back for more later on, they know who to come to who's actually going to be present there with them as they go through whatever the next journey looks like, or whatever that is. And I don't know if you meant to lead us there but I that's where my head went when you were talking about a journey is the return journey. Yes, yes,

Jessica Bird :

that's exactly it because I There's kind of a journey, right? If you think about it from the client perspective, when they find you, no matter where they find you, when they find you, like, they see that first thing, first image, and those first couple words you gave them. And that lets them know, alright, I understand where you are. And that's kind of exciting or Okay, this person gets me this is the very first step. But then once they have that first step, they're going to have questions, or they're going to be excited about something new, or they're gonna feel stuck in their way. And so if you understand your person, and you understand how to serve them, your marketing isn't just a one off deal. Like you said, it's something that you can continue helping them the value of seeing where they are in their map, then lets you guide them from that point to the next point to the next point. And if you really understand your people, and you're working in your own strengths as a business owner, your marketing is an opportunity to continue being of service like you're serving people with the marketing, by continuing to understand their problem and knowing their next steps, and even being willing to ask questions if you don't. So I think when you come at marketing as a one off deal, it can be really hard and stressful to have that journey. Because when it's a one off thing, you want to just put your best foot forward and hope it works. And you want a beautiful facade.

Nicole Salvatore :

It's like getting a piece of pizza Johnny Max, I got my piece of pizza. And now I have to move away like I just got to go. Yeah, your way. Yeah. And I know. And for those of you who are listening in or maybe like, this is awesome, Nicole and Jess, I would love to be heart centered and all that but girl's got to eat? Well, this is actually going to for the night, because there are some practical people in the in the hood, I bet. There's hope in the crew, and we need you.

Jessica Bird :

We need you.

Nicole Salvatore :

Here we are. But it this is actually what's going to sustain your business. Because if you do this heart centered work, I'm a firm believer in Jeff, I don't want to speak out of turn for you. But I would have guessed that you are as well, that it's easier. It's mathematically research based easier to retain a client, and more cost effective to retain an awesome client. I call them True Blue clients, but like it's easier to retain them, then to go out and find a new one. You know, because then you are always going out and finding a new one. So even if you're more of a practical minded person, this still makes sense. Number one, you get to feel good about it, I would hope. And then also it does make practical sense. So there's my plea to the practical world. This is good we're doing, you know, I was lucky enough to interview RJ Lewis on the podcast, that's my first guest here. And we we talked about unbroken your SEO. And I feel like that's what's going on in marketing too is there's been a commodification of authenticity that has left us like with a desert where nothing really grows, that's real. So if we come along with our meaningful, hopeful and helpful approach, we might have to plant some cacti for a while. But we can get it growing again, so to speak, and we just have to be patient with it. If we're going to unburrow SEO or make marketing vulnerable and real, we just have to be patient. So I'm wondering, from your perspective, and what you get to do with your people? What What do new business owners or business owners who do have the responsibility, the onus of doing their own marketing? What do they sometimes forget or maybe overlooked because they don't know any better?

Jessica Bird :

I think what I love those points, I think though, the biggest thing people who are new on it need to realize is that you can't build a thriving long term business, it's really going to actually help people and take you anywhere, if you don't build it on a strong foundation. So I think we all come from, you know, the early beginning phase where you have to be pretty scrappy, you need to get those quick sales, and maybe you're not working with ideal clients or fully in your strings. And that's okay, that's a part of it. But there needs to be a phase that needs to be phased out, you can't live in that space. And this is where I come in with Pinterest. And part of what I teach people is to create a full like a system, you really need a system for your business. So it is very practical. And when you're using Pinterest or any search engine, any sort of marketing that really builds a relationship, what you're doing is creating content for people. And even if you're not recreating content, you're sharing old content in new ways. So you still have to kind of create, you know, new covers new ways to present the old content. And I think by doing that, that's how you build the lifeblood of your business. That's how you build the foundation. So even while you're being really scrappy, and while you're doing all the work you need to do to get started and get those first few clients or sell the first few products, you still need to be thinking about your long term, or else you're going to be hustling until you burn out and you're gonna lose your business, you're gonna lose your mind. You're crazy with it. So what I recommend to people, a lot of people come to me on Pinterest and they just can't afford it because they're in the beginning stages of their business. So what I tell them is, you know, start getting systems in place, start understanding the best ways that you can spend time in your business, knowing what's really going to move the needle forward. versus what is just for vanity. If you don't have, you know, paying clients and hot products going on, you don't have the audience that you need on an email list. Unless you're actually making sales from it, you do not need a picture perfect Instagram, I make over $5,000 a month consistently and had for a while. And, and I don't even use Instagram for business, I have like 200 followers on I still hate $10,000 months, and I hit $20,000 amounts, and I still don't have a pretty Instagram feed. And I think people don't realize that you don't need those perfect vanity numbers. You don't need to have all this shiny stuff to get started in business. You got to focus on those first little bits, what's actually going to move your needle forward, and then look at it from your own heart space of what really matters to you. Why are you running this business and don't get lost? And when it looks like the whole crowd is doing? No, no, absolutely.

Nicole Salvatore :

And I think that I do use Instagram, I need to up my opinions game. But I do

Jessica Bird :

know people.

Nicole Salvatore :

Yeah, and you know what most of my people are people who have heard about me from other people. So I mean, I think that that has a sway in it too, because it's depending on the person, what they, what their mood is that they choose to use. But I but I think the core of what, always feel free to tell me I'm wrong. But I think what the core of what you're offering is that you don't need to make it perfect to make it successful. And I think that sometimes the pitfall, in my experience with Instagram is you look at everybody else's shiny, golden white feed and no shades of rose golden white, but you know, but you look at everybody else's pretty shiny feed and you are living in that mode, not recognizing that you know, your lime green and you know, neon pink feed might just be just as awesome for the people that you get to connect with, you know, it doesn't have to look a certain way I guess is my

Jessica Bird :

would be my exactly like focus on you stay in your lane, especially in that beginning bit. You just got to know yourself and know your people and go at it with blinders. And they get distracted by all the different ways that you can be doing your marketing or all the different people you could serve or how everybody else is doing it. You're going to end up running your business in a way that's completely exhausting to you. And you're going to be confusing the people you could be helping. versus if you just focus, focus on your next goal, focus on whatever your next phase is going to be for your business, then you can actually make an impact on people and you're growing, you're not spread so thin that you don't have time to reflect and learn from what you're doing. Because in business, we're always making mistakes. Either you make mistakes, or you stay broke.

Nicole Salvatore :

I always think you wouldn't swim out to the middle of the ocean, and they just stopped paddling.

Unknown Speaker :

Yeah,

Nicole Salvatore :

like I can't do a perfect breaststroke anymore. So I'm just gonna stop, I'm just kind of gonna stop. That's kind of it, you know? Or, you know, what I see a lot of people do is they want me to manage their Instagram, their Pinterest, their Facebook and their YouTube.

Jessica Bird :

Oh, just do it all.

Nicole Salvatore :

I don't know if there's enough hours in the day for me to do that for my business. So I you know, I think that's really interesting, too, when you had mentioned, you know, putting the blinders on, I think that's something that a lot of people need to hear. So everybody just is giving you permission to put blinders on, go forth and do that. Nothing bad will happen if you do. Well, not much. And if it's one thing, that's

Jessica Bird :

great, but focus on it,

Nicole Salvatore :

right, I will say nothing bad will happen, because it's been a heck of a year for such things. But there is not necessarily a downside that I think people think there is to doing that focused work, to putting eggs in that basket.

Jessica Bird :

And you know what, pretty, it doesn't stand out anymore. That pretty rolls golden light, it's beautiful. But it's the mistakes that we see. As evil scrolling as audience members, as clients, it's the mistakes that stand out. So if you make a mistake, or if something is absolutely horrible, or it's a flop, first of all, that's a great story to tell later, I have some good stories. And it helps your audience feel more connected in the long run. But it also kind of proves that authenticity and vulnerability when you go out and make a mistake, and then you share it. So it might sound like that's maybe going to be the end of the world. It's scary. You don't know what you're doing. But then you go out and do it. And you have stories to tell. And it's stories that connect people and it's stories that make sales and it's stories that keep people coming back for more and increase your lifetime value of clients and increase your network. You need those mistakes, because if you're just perfect all the time, nobody's gonna care. Nobody's gonna be interested. Humans like humans.

Nicole Salvatore :

No, absolutely. And And to your point. I mean, there's, there's, there's something to be said for, you know, the question I had Next on my list was, you know, we can't leave them out. What do big companies miss when it comes to marketing? And I think one of the the pitfalls just to not put that on on the side burner for a moment is one of the pitfalls that I see. smaller businesses make is looking at giant businesses and thinking, well, they're giant. So they must be doing everything right. So that, that I, that leads me to this this question, Are there things that you see larger companies with, you know, probably more larger marketing teams than you and I have right now. But what are these big companies showing us that maybe is not the whole picture or is not necessarily going to work for us as smaller business owners?

Jessica Bird :

I love this question. And I kind of want to twist it, I think there's a big shift going on in the bigness business world, you know, when we look at corporations, there's almost like polar opposites happening out there. Like, we have so many businesses that are just pretending nothing is happening in 2020, everything's fine, here's our beautiful shiny product, Kumbaya, the world is great. And then you're seeing this thing happening, where companies are starting to recognize on a human level where their audience is, and they're addressing, you know, the crazy fires going on, and the virus and how distant and disconnected people feel. So I think what business is bigger corporations used to not get was just reaching human beings, realizing that we know that there's a person behind their marketing. And we want to see that person, not just the pretty shiny logo of the business. And I think that when it comes to their marketing, you know, they're able to do more on more platforms. But at the end of the day, the ones that are really succeeding with connecting, and bringing back their audience and not losing them to other brands, or just, you know, just keeping the audience engaged and involved with those businesses are doing is they're having conversations on their platforms. And they're not necessarily starting new platforms, if they're not able to be present on it. I think that's something small businesses can learn from even on a micro scale of if you don't have this huge marketing team, and you don't have this team to be researching and figuring out the issues your people are dealing with. Keep it small, be responsible for what you have, before you try stretching and overdo it. And then you risk not connecting with people, or not even realizing that you've made a big mistake on a very public place. It's good to make mistakes, but mistakes that you can come back and be responsible for. I think we see this a lot with the Black Lives Matter movement. You know, some businesses are just pretending it's not happening. And some are acknowledging it. And they're saying, We've messed up, we haven't included you. We're sorry. Here's what we're doing going forward. And I think that's really, really powerful. And that's something that as a small business owner, I really admire, but inspires me to then look at my platforms and say, Okay, can I have this conversation on every platform that I'm present on? Could I actually acknowledge the people that I'm leaving out? And I don't have the capability to do that. And I think I'm spread too thin, and I need to drain it and a little bit so that I can go deeper and send a broader? No, I

Nicole Salvatore :

think, absolutely. I mean, I don't know, if you had I don't know, if you had the opportunity to attend the anti racist business forum that was a town hall, I believe, is the actual phrasing that Rachael Rogers had led. But that was, for me a wake up call. And I'm like, Oh, this is something that I need to make a part of my business and I was very not, I'm still learning, I'm going to be learning forever and ever and ever, but making anti racist business practices, a part of the forefront of the new work that I'm doing it with the new business that I'm launching, I think that is something that is going to always be a work in progress. But if I share that process with people, it may, in my hopes, it allow them to take on that work, too. And I think that we can have that domino effect in the lives of other business owners, if we're honest and open and transparent is my one of my favorite words. But like, really straight up with people about like, this is what I'm doing in my business. If this is something that resonates with you, here's how you can do it. And kind of leaving the the handout to to help them along the way like, here's my hand, you can grab onto it. And we can we can figure this out together. Because it's not perfect. And you know, as a white woman, it's not going to be perfect. But I think, to your point, if we're if we're able to be honest about the adventure that we're on, it may it may help others to do the same. I wonder.

Jessica Bird :

Yeah, exactly. And that's, I don't want to speak for anybody but the biggest message I'm getting is I did more and more into bringing in anti racism into my business, which honestly is just pathetic where I am right now. I haven't done enough and I know it, but I'm reaching out and I'm learning as I go. And the big message that I keep hearing is we don't want perfect, we just want you to stand up and stand behind it. We want it where you are and take the heat when you mess up and learn from it. That's the biggest message that I'm getting is you know, by having this incredible privilege to just be quiet and get nothing and choosing that versus getting out there and making mistake and trying to do our part. You know, when we make those public mistakes, we started a conversation. And when there's a conversation, then there can be growth and learning. But if we're just quiet, that puts all the weight on to black people, that puts all of it on their shoulders to fix this problem that they shouldn't have to fix by themselves. And I don't want to speak too much, I still have so much to learn there. But the biggest thing that I'm getting and that I've learned in the watching in bigger companies, too, is just being able to have the humility and grace to show up and make those mistakes, and take the criticism and learn from it. And to put your ego aside for a minute, and just realize I'm gonna mess this up, no matter which way I do it. And I'm gonna do it anyway. Because time, because other people have been carrying this weight for too long. And I want to help that goes into a lot of different areas. It's not just about Black Lives Matter. But that's such a prominent example right now to have, it's important to show up as a human, even if you are a business, it's important to show up and recognize the people that you're serving, because even as a business, you're part of a larger community. And you have responsibilities in that community. I think, you know, the apathy, the ignorance and the silence was was autopilot for a lot of people. And I'm devastatingly a failure

Nicole Salvatore :

in this arena, too. And it is what it is a process. But I think, like I said, the apathy, the ignorance in the silence is not sufficient anymore, we need to make sure that we are people even though we are businesses. So I sometimes wonder is, can we as small business owners really make an impact? And that's one of the things that I I've seen from you, is this this sort of impact focused marketing approach. So I'm wondering, I have to ask, because it's on my list that I have to follow my list. Now I have to ask, you know, there's some prior conditioning to what marketing and here's my air quotes, again, what marketing is supposed to look like, there's some prior conditioning for new business owners or even seasoned ones, about what marketing has to look like. So I'm wondering, from your perspective, even though I know your loved your clients, and that includes the future and the past ones on the current ones, what are some of the toughest parts or experiences you've had working with these clients? As they tackle some key challenges to those preconditions? You know, those conditioned responses or beliefs or things like that?

Jessica Bird :

Yeah, I like this question. I think there are a couple of big ones that I get. And the biggest thing that I see first off with new clients coming in new business owners is that they want to see an immediate return on their investment. But they don't understand the different performance metrics on their business. So I think that sounds really technical and practical, people probably love it. Like, people immediately want to be right throw Finally, some numbers. But what it means is people want to immediately be making money, like if they hired me to help them with Pinterest, they want to see like three times what they paid me back in their bank account immediately. And that's just not how it works. Because there are more valuable things in life in business than money. And that's not to say that I don't expect people to make their money back from their marketing, obviously, the function of marketing is to make money. But what you have to realize is that there is a long game happening, it's not just about the dollars you bring in. It's not just about you know, those initial leads and how many you get, it's also about the quality. You don't just want to get a webinar full of people, if a webinar is how you're selling, you want to get a webinar full of people who actually want to hear about what you're doing the webinar on and want to buy the thing you're selling. And then you want them to continue being interested in you. You want them to be someone who's not you actually want to walk on for a while. So part of what you see in your return when you're just starting out marketing is not just money, you'll see money, yes. But you'll also see quality leads people who connect with you who actually want to hear from you, as yourself so that you can show up to work. What's the quote, I hear this all the time in Rachael Rogers group, it's show up real if you can't show up boss. And that's the kind of leads that you want to have. You want to have people who even when you show up real because you couldn't show up at the top of your game feeling perfect that day, they still are excited to hear from you. And there is no greater return on your investment than a community of people who want to hear you real. We just need to understand that there is more to business than immediately making money. When you connect with people on that real level, they're not just going to buy from you once they're not just going to buy your $22 course or your $900 course or your $3,000 coaching, they're going to keep coming back for more. Because they saw something in you that was real, that they connected with on such a deep level. And so when you're first marketing, you don't want to just go for the cash you want to win the hearts that answer the question. That was

Nicole Salvatore :

no, absolutely. You actually answered my next question, which was about ROI because I had the same experience with SEO like people asking you know how long will It takes for me to get to the first page of Google. And I'm like, that's a great question.

Jessica Bird :

Everybody's favorite answer.

Nicole Salvatore :

Yeah, you know. And that's not for lack of trying, as you know, it's not for lack of trying. It's just, it depends on a lot of, there's some oscillation back and forth for me. And I'm like, in my head, like, Oh, well, now you don't really believe in what I'm selling you. And I don't know if I can convince you of that. Or if I want to convince you of that, you know. And so that happens in my mind. So, you know, for me, I think it's a little bit as a business owner about trusting ourselves, what do we need to do to begin making marketing and content creation decisions, that evidence that we can provide ROI beyond a monetary value, including a monetary ROI because girls got to eat, people got to eat right? But also, to your point, the larger impact of the relationship building the forging of a partnership, rather than a merchant account creation process, or something like that. I'm using the wrong terms. And I'm sure I'll be roasted for it, but and then the case, but instead of just like, I got your reason number, you know, what else do I have, I have insight about who you are, and how I can help you, not just today or tomorrow, but for however long you decide that you want to hang out with me. So for me, part of that is about trusting ourselves. And if we don't do it right now, if we don't trust ourselves at the moment to deliver that ROI, building that muscle, because as you said, showing up real when you can't show up at the top of your game is still showing up, we just have to keep doing that. One thing that I learned too, is that the most valuable thing that we have as business owners is information, not even our assets, it's not our bank account, it's information. And you see this reflected on the large scale, like look at Google, how do you think they make all their money in the world, it's because they have all of our information, and it is worth money.

Jessica Bird :

So when I am trying to tell people about what I do, or tell them about Pinterest and say, you know, you're not going to see a monetary ROI for at least 90 days, unless you get like an amazing miracle, which for me to happen, it's it's actually really cool. But I don't tell people to play on it, you're not going to see something for 90 days. But I'm going to provide you with data that you can use across every aspect of your business. And if you focus, and you actually focus on your business a lot all the shiny other vanity metrics and what everybody else is doing, that data from just 90 days of looking at your using SEO and looking at the results can make you millions. Absolutely. They just don't realize like that's where the millions are is an understanding your people.

Nicole Salvatore :

Well, and I think the same thing goes for blogs, or social posts, the things that do well, and the things that flop completely. There's your data. There's all your data points, the things that don't get clicked on or pinned, there's your data points. Oh, yeah,

Jessica Bird :

when I first started, I was like, all I do is I look at what's working and what's not and adjust accordingly. I don't add more bells and whistles, I don't go follow everybody else and take a new course, I look at what's working and do more of that. And I look at what's not working and I take it out or I add more what is working to it. The best marketing strategy there is you don't need complicated fanciness you can use strategy and get technical with it. But at the very end of the day, it's just about what's working. And who's working for and do more of that.

Nicole Salvatore :

Right. And and, you know, I'd love to hear one of the things I hear from other people about SEO, I hear it about starting a blog or starting to really get serious about social posts, or you know, even creating ongoing like website copy, which is like my favorite thing ever. Side note. But one of the things I hear is that people feel overwhelmed. And while I think that overwhelmed is overused as a term, I do hear that I am overwhelmed by all the marketing stuff out there. So I'm wondering if you have a first step that someone can take, that will get them started without as much or, you know, without as much overwhelm as they step into this, this process.

Jessica Bird :

First off, I have to say I've been doing this for three years, running it myself and doing my own marketing and learning from everybody on the planet and I am overwhelmed. So don't beat yourself up. It never ends. There's so much out there. And then algorithms change and different methods change and the global community changes. So there's always more information. What helps me is just find a mentor and stick with them. Focus on one because honestly, I think most people's ways work. There's not a lot of strategy out there that doesn't work necessarily. It's just that it works because they did one thing they focus and they kept at it. And I think that shows through in the world of SEO and search engines. You build trust by going Continuing to do the same thing by giving them the same results, just showing them over and over and over again, this is who I am. This is what I talked about, this is what I do. And it's true with an audience too, no matter what strategy you have, it's your focus on it. I know this isn't that helpful, like, just click this button, and that works answer. But it's your focus on one strategy for one person, for one thing that really linear focus is what helps you actually be successful and it kills the overwhelm. Someone told me to just make a parking lot for ideas. And I love it. I have a little board in my house now where if I'm like, Oh, I wonder what it's like to mark it on Tick tock, that goes in parking lot, because I'm busy. I need to focus on what I'm doing. So I just put it in the parking lot. like okay, well, this is sitting pretty when I'm not starving, when I'm not desperate, you know, and I've got certain things, certain block key performance metrics in my business where I want to see them, then I can go check out that parking lot full of ideas. So they're not overwhelming me, it's not all things I'm trying to do all at once. Instead, it's sitting there waiting for me, and I'm the boss, and all decide when it's time to try that new thing. That's a lot easier, I think then just letting everybody tell you how to market and assuming you don't know what you're doing.

Nicole Salvatore :

Right? Well, and I think too, having a parking lot of ideas gives you a chance to when you're ready, sit down and enjoy those ideas, because they came from somewhere. But hey, they have they have their place in the parking lot.

Jessica Bird :

In the parking lot. It's also reassuring, because then if you're trying something and you're like, what if this doesn't work? Cool, I've got a parking lot of ideas that I can try. But first, I'm going to give this one idea that I'm doing 90 days and I'm just gonna stick to it. That's always my bottom, it's like 90 days, just stick with it for three months follow the plan,

Unknown Speaker :

right? Because the

Nicole Salvatore :

alternative is I know I gave it for four business days, Amazon Prime did not deliver the results I wanted. So I'm gonna I'm gonna consider this a failure I'm moving on. And we we both know. And for anybody out there who does this more regularly, just like we do. The only thing that comes, you know, shows up in two or three days is your triscuits from Amazon. So like, it's just not it's just not

Jessica Bird :

how this works. Well then when you do that you're actually sabotaging everything that you're trying to create. Because then you you're proving to this search engines and you're proving to your audience, I'm not trustworthy. I don't know what I'm doing. I can't commit to anything. Every four days, I'm gonna try a new idea. And if you don't like it fine, be like that. And nobody wants to work with a toddler. It's very toddler attitude. I have

Nicole Salvatore :

shiny object syndrome. You don't want to go

Jessica Bird :

advertising that. Or if you do you want to be like, but I'm working on it. There's a parking lot. And here's what we're doing to make people feel better. It'll bring them along the journey. Instead of them feeling like man, you were always trying something new. I can't keep up with you. What is your problem? And I've been there, I've been that person. That's how I No,

Nicole Salvatore :

no, I think that's I think that's perfect advice. And I think that's a really, really cool note for us to kind of begin to wrap up for today. But I think that focus that singular focus on this is the avenue I'm going to try this is it. This is not it forever and ever and ever. But this for right now is what I'm going to try. And we'll see we'll see how this goes. And I'm going to trust myself to commit to this or not, I love that idea. And trust myself commit to this for 90 days, and see how see how things go.

Jessica Bird :

So before I let you be curious, just come in and curious. I wonder what I can do with this.

Nicole Salvatore :

Exactly, exactly. So before I let you go correct me always if I'm wrong, but you have Pinterest services that you offer. So I was wondering if you could this is something I've just dipped my toes in to to like looking into recently. So if someone else is in the same boat as me, you know and they're just like listening and they have been thinking about using Pinterest for their as their like go to I'm gonna try this for 90 days platform. You know what, what would that look like to work with you?

Jessica Bird :

Working with me actually just became a whole new experience I used to do done for you Pinterest services. And I just found that that wasn't enough. It didn't bring the deep enough connection that people wanted to have with their audience. And then when they were done working with me, they had to hire it up someone else or teach their VA how to do something they didn't know how to do. So working with me now looks like a full blown coaching three months of how to market and actually looks at Pinterest and one other strategy because I want to help people make money right away too. Because again, we got to eat.

Nicole Salvatore :

Yeah, yeah, everybody's got it.

Jessica Bird :

My business is called the serendipity lifestyle. And my point behind the serendipity lifestyle is just that people should be able to be fully human even when they're running a business. So working with the serendipity lifestyle now means coming to a full 90 day coaching program that's basically going to revamp your entire business lifestyle. It's going to teach you the content creation process and get a system in place so that you're able to walk your customers through a journey and then we do the marketing cycle, the whole market. Any system. So it's, it's really fun. I think I'm still tweaking it and learning. And I get a lot of feedback based on what's working well. And I walk people through the steps every time and it's really, really fun. But I don't recommend just getting Pinterest hired out and just having it done for you. Because ultimately, as a business owner, you need to know your people to know who you're talking to, and you can't have someone outside doing that.

Nicole Salvatore :

Absolutely. I feel the same way about websites. I'm like, Yes, you can have someone build it for you. But make sure you know how to edit it. You know?

Jessica Bird :

Yes, you don't have to pay like five grand every time you need help with the website.

Nicole Salvatore :

Exactly. Like I have to pay, I have to call Timmy and Timmy has to fix the website, or Jane or whoever, like they have to go fix it. I can't do it myself. I'm not I'm not interested. So that being said, if someone is like, Yes, I want to work with Jess, let's go. If they're looking for any have any and all just stuff, how would they find you and get ahold of you.

Jessica Bird :

I don't like to spread myself thin. So I'm not all over social media. The best way to get a hold of me even if you just want to learn things, like for free is to get on my email list. So it's at the serendipity lifestyle.com slash subscribe. And if you're looking around my website, I'm posting Pinterest training webinars all the time right now. So I actually go through and teach people how to use Pinterest and my free webinar. And then I tell them about medical program at the end of that. So if they want to learn more they can. But ultimately, that gives you what you need, and gives you more examples of how to use this new marketing philosophy to connect on the human level for free because we all need to know it and I want it out there for more people. They want more of me, if you want more of me listening, just come over to my website and look around and see what delights you what makes you curious and follow it. Awesome. It's pretty focused. So you've got the focus built in and you can have some fun, it's a safe place to go and not ruin your focus.

Nicole Salvatore :

That's awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much just for joining us or me just joining me today. I really, really appreciate it and I know that we covered so much awesome and practical stuff today. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. If you loved my interview with Jessica you can find her at the serendipity lifestyle.com You can also download the embrace yourself ebook for free when you join her email list at the same website, the serendipity lifestyle.com forward slash subscribe